The testimony of Daniel Gutierrez Lujan was taken at 10:10 a.m., on
April 9, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office
Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BALL. Mr. Lujan, will you stand up and be sworn, please.
Hold up your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you
are about to give to this Commission will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You were asked to come in here and testify, were you not, in
this matter? You were asked to come here?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Were you not?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And this Commission has been appointed to inquire into the
facts and circumstances surrounding the assassination of President
Kennedy.
Mr. LUJAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And we're informed that you--that there is certain
information that might be of some value to the Commission in coming to
their conclusion, and we have asked you to come in here and testify.
Are you willing to testify to whatever you know?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. This is Mr. Ely and my name is Ball. We are both staff
officers with the Commission. Will you please state your name?
Mr. LUJAN. Daniel Gutierrez Lujan.
Mr. BALL. Where do you live?
Mr. LUJAN. I live 184 Lear.
Mr. BALL. Dallas?
Mr. LUJAN. Dallas, Tex.
Mr. BALL. What is your occupation?
Mr. LUJAN. I work in a meat company, butcher and general help.
Mr. BALL. I see. Where were you born?
Mr. LUJAN. Tyler, Tex.
Mr. BALL. Did you go to school there?
Mr. LUJAN. No; I went to school in San Antonio and here in Dallas.
Mr. BALL. In Dallas?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How far did you go through school?
Mr. LUJAN. Went to about seventh grade.
Mr. BALL. Then did you go to work?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go to work?
Mr. LUJAN. Palmer & Ray.
Mr. BALL. Red?
Mr. LUJAN. Ray & Palmer.
Mr. BALL. How long did you work there?
Mr. LUJAN. I worked there about 2-1/2 years.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go then?
Mr. LUJAN. Direct Delivery Service.
Mr. BALL. Direct to where?
Mr. LUJAN. Delivery Service.
Mr. BALL. Delivery Service?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How long did you work there?
Mr. LUJAN. I worked about 3 years.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go?
Mr. LUJAN. Then had to go to Huntsville. I went to Huntsville.
Mr. BALL. I didn't hear that.
Mr. LUJAN. I went to Huntsville Penitentiary.
Mr. BALL. You went to Huntsville Prison?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. For what charge?
Mr. LUJAN. Possession of narcotics.
Mr. BALL. How long were you there?
Mr. LUJAN. Three years.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go?
Mr. LUJAN. I got out and started working at Schepps. Schepps Wholesale
Groceries.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go?
Mr. LUJAN. T. & W.
Mr. BALL. From Schepps? You're still there?
Mr. LUJAN. No; T. & W. Meat Co.
Mr. BALL. What?
Mr. LUJAN. T. & W.
Mr. BALL. How long did you work for Schepps?
Mr. LUJAN. Three and a half years.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go?
Mr. LUJAN. T. & W.
Mr. BALL. I see. November 22, 1963, you were in jail, weren't you?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What was the charge?
Mr. LUJAN. Investigation.
Mr. BALL. Of what?
Mr. LUJAN. Investigation of narcotics.
Mr. BALL. Of narcotics?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And when were you arrested?
Mr. LUJAN. I was arrested the day before that.
Mr. BALL. That is, November 22--21?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes; day before the assassination.
Mr. BALL. Before the assassination?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How long did you stay in jail?
Mr. LUJAN. Until Sunday.
Mr. BALL. Then did they release you?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You were not charged with anything?
Mr. LUJAN. No.
Mr. BALL. Now, are they--on Friday, November 22, 1963, did you take
part in a showup?
Mr. LUJAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. What time of day was it?
Mr. LUJAN. It was--I don't recall, about 1 o'clock, probably in the
afternoon.
Mr. BALL. Was it in the afternoon?
Mr. LUJAN. I don't remember.
Mr. BALL. Or what?
Mr. LUJAN. That was a Saturday.
Mr. BALL. Saturday, yes. You didn't take part in any showups on Friday?