Mr. TURNER. We got stuff out of two or three different places. Here is
the typed-up list of the copies that I made.
Mr. BELIN. You made a typed-up list of things that you picked up at
1026 North Beckley?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Are these the things that you picked up?
Mr. TURNER. That is the same that was picked up there.
Mr. BELIN. Was this a complete list, or might there have been other
things?
Mr. TURNER. There is some articles of clothing that is not listed. It
is just listed as miscellaneous clothing and so forth.
Mr. BELIN. This is your original?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir; that is a carbon.
Mr. BELIN. This is a carbon? Who typed the carbon?
Mr. TURNER. Well, the carbon was made at the time the original was made
by one of the secretaries in the--our office.
Mr. BELIN. Who dictated it?
Mr. TURNER. Well, that is a different thing. She took it out of this
notebook, and Mr. Moore wrote part of it in the notebook and I wrote
part.
Mr. BELIN. In other words, these are copies [of] notebooks that you had?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Well, let's mark this as an exhibit. Let's mark this as
"Turner Deposition Exhibit 1," which I will offer to introduce in
evidence.
Do you need this back?
Mr. TURNER. No; I am sure we have other copies. That is a copy I had
in my locker. I mean, that is probably the same. They might have made
a more detailed description of it down at the property room.
Mr. BELIN. All right, what did you do after you left the Beckley
residence?
Did you talk to the landlady there at all? Or not?
Mr. TURNER. Talked to her, but I can't recall her name. There was a
Mrs. Johnson and Mr. Johnson and Earlene Roberts. There were two or
three people there.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember anything that anyone said at that time?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir; I don't. Mr. Potts and Senkel and Cunningham were
waiting for us to bring the warrant, so they had been talking to them
before we did.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember finding a leather gun holster?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; there was a holster found.
Mr. BELIN. Now, what did you do after that?
Mr. TURNER. After we brought this stuff to the office?
Mr. BELIN. Yes.
Mr. TURNER. Well, by that time the phones and everything else were
going wild. I answered phones around there for quite a while. I believe
I did take an affidavit from a sister of the boy that worked with
Oswald at the Texas School Book Depository, the boy that he rode to
work with that morning.
Mr. BELIN. What do you do when you take an affidavit, by the way? How
do you go about doing it?
Mr. TURNER. Well, I just take the--let them tell the story, and write
it down in longhand, and get the secretary to type it up, and let them
sign it in front of a notary.
Mr. BELIN. Do you have an affidavit in front of you or your notes from
this Linnie Mae Randle, this sister of the boy that drove him to work,
or not?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you throw those out once the affidavit is typed up?
Mr. TURNER. I don't believe they ever gave it back to us. I guess the
secretary, she might have filed it somewhere.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you did that day?
Mr. TURNER. That is the only affidavit I can remember taking in this
thing.
Mr. BELIN. All right, what happened? Anything else on that day that you
think is important insofar as the assassination is concerned?
Mr. TURNER. I don't think of anything. Let me look through these notes
here and see about where we are. As far as that day goes, that is about
it.
Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. Do you remember when you were out at
1026 North Beckley finding a passport at all? Does that ring a bell
with you?
Mr. TURNER. I think there was a passport, maybe one or two.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether or not there was any kind of
vaccination card, one of those yellow health organization vaccination
cards which bears the name of Lee Oswald? Do you remember whether there
was any of those there or not?
Mr. TURNER. I don't recall that.
Mr. BELIN. You don't remember whether there was or was not?
Mr. TURNER. I don't remember whether there was or was not; no, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What about the next day, Saturday, November 23?
Mr. TURNER. Just nothing of importance that I did that day, that I know
of, except I came to work, like I said.
They had to put in four or five extra phones up there, and it kept lots
of us busy answering the phone.
Mr. BELIN. At that time did you ever get involved in any interrogation
sessions with Oswald?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir; I never was.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever get involved in any showups of Oswald?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir. I think I might have got right in on the tail end
of one down there, but I don't recall the details. I think I walked in
just as they were winding up on him one night.
Mr. BELIN. Did you receive any phone calls about anyone that tried to
identify the rifle as to where it might have been purchased from?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; I did. On one of the phone calls, but I don't
know the man's name that called, but he did state that he had seen a
picture. This was probably Saturday, the next day. He stated that he
had seen this picture somewhere of this rifle, that was found, and he
stated this about this Klein's Sporting Goods of Chicago had an exact
replica in a magazine that he had seen, and I passed that along to
Captain Fritz, and he already had the information.
Mr. BELIN. Anything--any other information come in on Saturday of any
importance?
Mr. TURNER. Not that I can recall.
Mr. BELIN. All right; were you in the police station Sunday morning,
November 24?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. When did you come to the police station?
Mr. TURNER. I came in from church, approximately, shortly after 12, and
my mother-in-law or somebody told me they had seen the incident happen,
or had then heard the incident, or told me about the incident, so I
called the office and they said come on to work, so I probably got to
work about 1 o'clock or so.
Mr. BELIN. Then you stayed down there on Sunday?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; until in the night.
Mr. BELIN. Anyone call in on Sunday about anything of importance with
regard to the assassination?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir. I mean, I don't know whether it was in regard to
the assassination. They called in about there was supposed to be a man
at Irving that sighted in a rifle out there.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know who it was that called in?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; it was Mr. Ray Johns, channel 8 news.
Mr. BELIN. What did he say?
Mr. TURNER. He stated he had received an anonymous call stating Oswald
had the rifle sighted in on Thursday, November 21, at a gunshop at 111
or 212 Irving Boulevard.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?
Mr. TURNER. Well, I checked the crisscross and phone book and found
there was an Irving Sports Shop at 221 East Irving Boulevard.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. TURNER. Found a man that owned it, Woody Greener, and had a man,
Dial Ryder, that worked for him.
Mr. BELIN. Did you talk with either or both of them?
Mr. TURNER. Yes; I did. I don't remember that particular time, but I
have talked with both of them.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember if it was on that day or a subsequent day?
Mr. TURNER. I don't remember whether it was that day or the next day, I
sure don't.
Mr. BELIN. Who did you talk to? Did you talk to Greener?
Mr. TURNER. I talked to Mr. Greener first.
Mr. BELIN. Did you later talk to Ryder or not?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; I have talked to Ryder.
Mr. BELIN. What did Greener say?
Mr. TURNER. Well, they said that they had all seen pictures of Oswald
in the paper, and neither of them could recall doing anything--any work
for the man in the shop.
Mr. BELIN. What else did he say, if anything?
Mr. TURNER. He stated he would check his files and records for names,
and would call back if he found anything and he was giving us a reason
there, from looking at the photos in the picture, why they hadn't
worked on it.
Mr. BELIN. What reason did he give you?
Mr. TURNER. Well, in the photos it showed that the screws that hold the
clamp that holds the scope on the rifle looked like they were on top of
the gun, and he thinks, he says that neither of them have ever seen a
gun where the scope was mounted with the screws on top.
Mr. BELIN. Were they ever talked to again about the thing?
Mr. TURNER. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. About when was that?
Mr. TURNER. About November 28.
Mr. BELIN. Who did you talk to?
Mr. TURNER. Mr. Greener.
Mr. BELIN. What did he say?
Mr. TURNER. He stated that they found a work ticket in the rear of
the shop. Said this ticket had no date on it, but the best they could
figure out, his--this work probably came in around November the 4th or
November the 8th of 1963.
Mr. BELIN. Well, what else did he say about the work ticket that would
call attention to it?
Mr. TURNER. He said the ticket had the name Oswald on it, written on
it, and the word "drill and tap, $4.50, and bore sighting, $1.50."
Mr. BELIN. Did he say whether or not he could remember anything about
this, about the man they did the work for?
Mr. TURNER. He stated that he could not; no, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever talk to Ryder about it, or not?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BELIN. What did Ryder say?
Mr. TURNER. He couldn't remember either, anything about the man.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever show them the gun itself?
Mr. TURNER. I didn't; no, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know whether or not the gun was ever shown to these
men?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say who wrote the ticket?
Mr. TURNER. They said that it was Ryder's writing, I believe.
Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. Did you ever pick up the work ticket
on--or try to pick up the work ticket?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; I tried to. Went by Mr. Greener's house. He said
that he had orders from a Mr. Horton of the FBI to hold this ticket and
not let it get away from him.
Mr. BELIN. When did you contact Greener about this?
Mr. TURNER. Sir?
Mr. BELIN. When did you contact Greener about this, or don't you
remember?
Mr. TURNER. I don't know.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know what the phrase, "Drill and tap," means, or did
you discuss this with Mr. Greener?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; I did. He explained it to me.
Mr. BELIN. What did he say about it?
Mr. TURNER. He said the phrase, "Drill and tap," as used by a gunsmith
means to drill a hole, using a tap to put threads in the hole to attach
a scope mount. Said that he charged a $1.50 a hole to bore these holes.
Said this would mean that the mount on this scope would have three
screws in it.
Mr. BELIN. Let's see, that would be $4.50. Well, as I understand it, he
said that--do you know how many screws the rifle had on the top of it
that was found in the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir; I don't. I never examined it.
Mr. BELIN. But this would indicate three screws on top?
Mr. TURNER. According to his charges of a $1.50 a hole.
Mr. BELIN. How many on top? I mean, three screws based on his $1.50 a
screw?
Mr. TURNER. A hole.
Mr. BELIN. What about the bore sight? What does that mean?
Mr. TURNER. The phrase boresight, his description means to attach to a
spud to the barrel of the rifle, and then using a sight-alining tool,
they attach this spud to this tool and aline the crosshairs, and that
is to sight a rifle in.
Mr. BELIN. Did he indicate to you whether or not he knew of any
particular rifle that had three screws on the scope mount?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; he named two. He said that most mounting for
scopes was four screws, but he said there are two or three, the
Springfield 03AM and the British 303. He said those two use three
screws in their mount.
Mr. BELIN. Now do you have anywhere in your notes as to whether or not
you put down as to how many screws in a mount this rifle found in the
School Book Depository Building had?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. All right; did he say whether or not he sold any ammunition
for a 6.5 caliber Italian rifle?
Mr. TURNER. He stated he does not sell ammunition for those caliber
rifles, 6.5.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say whether or not he would try and do any further
checking to see if he could determine when the order was picked up?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; he said he would check his sales tickets and see
if he could find perhaps by the $6 charge approximately what date it
might have been picked up.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever go back and talk with him later to see whether
or not he did this?
Mr. TURNER. We did, but he wasn't, as far as I can remember, he wasn't
able to do any good. He might have had a lot of charges in that amount
or nature or something.
Mr. BELIN. Any other conversations with him that you recall right now?
Mr. TURNER. None that I can recall.
Mr. BELIN. What about the other man, Mr. Ryder? Did you ever talk to
him?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BELIN. What did he say and what did you say?
Mr. TURNER. Mr. Ryder said that he wrote the work ticket up with the
name Oswald on it. We showed him a picture of Oswald, and he stated
that he cannot identify the man as the one who left the rifle with him.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say that he was sure that Oswald's picture was not
the man, or did he just say he could not give positive identification
one way or the other, if you remember?
Mr. TURNER. I don't recall the exact words, but I know he didn't
identify him.
Mr. BELIN. What else did he say?
Mr. TURNER. Well, he said that, I believe, that this ticket was written
up with a pencil. He said he usually writes with a pen, and he could
recall some days in the past month when he had forgotten his pen or
something, and he was going to check around and see if he could figure
out what day the rifle might have been left there.
Mr. BELIN. Did he ever do this at all, or not?
Mr. TURNER. I don't recall whether he did or not.
Mr. BELIN. You don't have another record of your going back and talking
to him, do you?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You don't know if the FBI did?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say whether or not he had ever seen any pictures of
the rifle?
Mr. TURNER. Said he had seen pictures of it, yes, sir; probably in the
paper.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say whether or not those pictures enabled him to
determine that he had or had not worked on it?
Mr. TURNER. He said from the pictures he had seen of it, he did not
think that he was working on it.
Mr. BELIN. Why not?
Mr. TURNER. He thinks from the photos that the scope mounting had only
two screws in it, and he states that they charged for three on this
ticket, and said that he also thinks that he would remember a cheap
scope like was attached to this rifle, and would have tried to sell the
man another one, and would remember that.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else about him?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. All right, now, I believe you said you took a picture of
Oswald out to this Ronald Fischer that lived in Mesquite, Tex.?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember anything else that Fischer might have said
about this?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir; only that he said the photos of Oswald looked
like the man he saw at the window that shot, and he stated he saw this
man a minute or less before the motorcade arrived, and could not say
definitely this was the man. He said it looked like him.
Mr. BELIN. Detective Turner, is there anything else you can think of
that in any way bears upon the assassination of the President of the
investigation you made that we haven't discussed here?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You have been sitting here while I put in a call to
Washington to determine whether or not the rifle had two or three
holes for screws for the mounting of the scope, and just so that your
curiosity will be relieved, I will say that I have a report from
Washington that there are only two holes for mounting the scope on this
particular rifle. Well, if you have nothing further, we want to thank
you very much for all the cooperation in coming down here.
One other thing on the record. You have the opportunity to read this
and sign it before it goes to Washington, or you can just waive
the signature and have the court reporter ship it. Do you have any
preference or not?
Mr. TURNER. What have they been doing?
Mr. BELIN. Well, most of the officers have been saying they would as
soon read it and sign it, but you can do it either way.
Mr. TURNER. I suppose it is all right to just let it go.
Mr. BELIN. You want to waive it?
Mr. TURNER. Well.