Mr. BALL. And there is "11-22-63"--what does that mean?
Mr. POTTS. That means--we initial all of the evidence we bring out of
there. At the time--this was going to court, and if this was brought
out in court that would be my initials right there--I recovered this.
Mr. BALL. Did you initial it right there in the room?
Mr. POTTS. We initialed it after we brought it to the station.
Mr. BALL. These are the initials of the men who were there with you?
Mr. POTTS. That's H. M. Moore and I guess it's F. M. Turner--"F. M.
T."--that's my partner. Yes, sir; for the purpose of identification in
court, we initialed everything we could possibly write on.
Mr. BALL. Now, did you, on the 23d of November, take part in the
investigation of either the death of Oswald or the shooting of the
President?
Mr. POTTS. Well, I reported to work at 10 o'clock in the morning
and we worked until midnight that night--it was mostly telephone
conversations--they had to put extra phones in our office. We were
swamped--I talked to people from England, Canada, Peru--all over was
just calling in there--just a continual call--call--call--and it kept
most of us real busy answering telephone calls that day.
Mr. BALL. Did you take part in any showup of Oswald?
Mr. POTTS. I believe I did--was that the 23d--at 2:15 that afternoon on
the 23d, I was in on one.
Mr. BALL. Who was with you?
Mr. POTTS. Mr. Senkel and I went to the jail and stood by the jail
elevator and waited until the showup came down, and I was thinking
there was M. G. Hall and Charlie Brown and a jailer or two that brought
that showup down. They were all handcuffed together, as I recall.
Mr. BALL. Who is M. G. Hall?
Mr. POTTS. He is a detective in our bureau.
Mr. BALL. And who is Charlie Brown?
Mr. POTTS. Charlie Brown is also an officer assigned to the bureau.
Now, I might be wrong about that, but it seems to me like they were the
two that showed up then, but they might not have been.
Mr. BALL. Now, did you have anything to do with the selection of the
men who were to be in the showup?
Mr. POTTS. No, sir; all I did was just to go down to the jail door and
walk with the showup out to the stage, and I stood out on the stage
while the showup was conducted.
Mr. BALL. How was it conducted? Describe it.
Mr. POTTS. Well, there is an anteroom before you get to the showup
stage. Now, the witnesses were out front behind this transparent black
nylon screen. There's a light set at an angle on the stage where the
person on the stage can't see the people out in the audience. They
brought them out handcuffed together and this John Thurman Horne went
in first--no, that's wrong--Lujan went on first, because he would be
No. 4. You see, they're got numbers above the--above them higher up
there.
Mr. BALL. What is his full name?
Mr. POTTS. Daniel Lujan, and then Oswald was No. 3, Knapp No. 2.
Mr. BALL. What is Knapp's full name?
Mr. POTTS. David Knapp and John Thurman Horne was No. 1.
Mr. BALL. And what happened then, after they went out on the stage?
Mr. POTTS. Well, Detective Leavelle--now, I don't know who the witness
was that they were showing them to--the showup to.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear Leavelle?
Mr. POTTS. I heard Leavelle question each one of the men. There is a
black square on the floor and he tells each one of them to take one
step forward and they have a microphone above, and I don't recall
exactly what he asked them--It was just to get them to talk and
identify themselves. We conduct them different--sometimes we ask them
their names and their address and their occupation.
Mr. BALL. Did you ask the questions?
Mr. POTTS. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did Leavelle ask the questions?
Mr. POTTS. Yes; he was up there.
Mr. BALL. And, did he direct his questions to the men on the stage?
Mr. POTTS. Yes; to the men on the stage.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear them?
Mr. POTTS. Yes; I heard them answer.
Mr. BALL. Did Oswald speak up or not?
Mr. POTTS. Well, he was complaining all during the showup. He had on
a T-shirt and the rest of them didn't have on T-shirts, and he was
complaining, "Well, everybody's got on a shirt and everything, and
I've got a T-shirt on"--he was very belligerent about the showup.
He wouldn't cooperate in any way. He was just making all kinds of
commotion out there and he was doing more of the talking than anybody.
Mr. BALL. What kind of commotion was he making?
Mr. POTTS. Well, he was doing a lot of talking about him being in
a T-shirt, and "nobody else has got on a T-shirt and I've got on a
T-shirt, this is unfair," and all that--just generally talking and
after the showup was over, we just accompanied them back from the
stage out to the anteroom door and just walked along with them and the
elevator--took them on the elevator, and that's all we had to do with
the show.
Mr. BALL. That's all you had to do with it?
Mr. POTTS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. What were the appearances of the four men who came out?
Mr. POTTS. They were similar in size--I didn't pick them--I don't know
who did, but they were generally the same size, and, of course, the
ages are a little different here.
Mr. BALL. What ages were they, do you know?
Mr. POTTS. Well, Horne was 17--he was born November 6, 1945, I believe
that's right.
Mr. BALL. John Thurman Horne?
Mr. POTTS. Yes; and this David Edmond Knapp, he was 18. He was born
October 22, 1945, and this Daniel Lujan, he was 26, and he was born
February 15, 1937.
Mr. BALL. And do you have the addresses of these three men?
Mr. POTTS. Yes; I do--now, I got the addresses off of--out of our
records bureau--off of their arrest cards. I don't know whether they
gave a fictitious address or not.
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. POTTS. Now, Horne is 2942 Ann Arbor.
Mr. BALL. 2942 Ann Arbor?
Mr. POTTS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And that's Dallas?
Mr. POTTS. Yes; that's in Oak Cliff.
Mr. BALL. And what was he charged with--why was he in jail?
Mr. POTTS. Traffic tickets--he had a number of traffic tickets.
Mr. BALL. Traffic tickets?
Mr. POTTS. Yes; he had a stack of them--all on the same arrest date.
Mr. BALL. He did?
Mr. POTTS. Yes--red lights and so on.
Mr. BALL. And what about David Knapp, what was he in for?
Mr. POTTS. He was in for investigation of theft and he lived at 2922
Alabama. That's in Oak Cliff.
Mr. BALL. And he was in for investigation?
Mr. POTTS. Investigation of burglary and theft.
Mr. BALL. Was he convicted?
Mr. POTTS. Well, I don't know anything about that.
Mr. BALL. You don't know where he is now?
Mr. POTTS. No, sir; I have never seen those men since.
Mr. BALL. You don't know whether he was convicted or not?
Mr. POTTS. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BALL. What about Lujan?
Mr. POTTS. Daniel Lujan--[spelling] L-u-j-a-n, I guess that's the way
you pronounce it. He was born February 15, 1937, and gave the address
of 1804 Lear [spelling] L-e-a-r Street, and he was in for investigation
of violation of State narcotic laws.
Mr. BALL. And was he convicted, or do you know?
Mr. POTTS. I don't know.
Mr. BALL. Do you know if any one of these men has ever been convicted
of a felony?
Mr. POTTS. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BALL. You know nothing about that?
Mr. POTTS. I know nothing about them at all. In fact, that's the first
time I have ever seen them and I suppose the last time.
Mr. BALL. Now, did you take any further part in the investigation?
Mr. POTTS. That Presidential assassination--I think that's about all I
done on that.
Mr. BALL. I think that one day you went out and talked to Mr. Fischer?
Mr. POTTS. Yes; I talked to a boy named Fischer--on the 25th of
November. Of course, you know I was off duty on the Ruby thing.
Mr. BALL. Yes; I know that.
Mr. POTTS. I was at home then and I was sitting there and my wife said,
"They are going to televise this transfer of Oswald." I said, "I've
seen enough of that and I don't want to look at it." And she said, "We
need milk and bread for lunch," and so I got up and got in the car
and went to Safeway and was standing in line to check out there and a
woman--well, it looked like a woman--came out and said, "Oswald has
just been shot." Well, I thought that was a big joke, too, and went
back out there and turned on the car radio and there that was. I came
on back on duty that day.