Mr. BELIN. Someone?
Mr. HILL. Chief Batchelor and Chief Stevenson.
Mr. BELIN. Two and three?
Mr. HILL. Then 531 again would have been the dispatcher advising 305,
which is a homicide unit that the apprehension had been made.
And then the 550 car 2, to 531 would have been me telling him that we
had 223, who was Walker--that is Walker's call number, and 492, which
was Carroll, and Lyons' call number in the car with me.
And we later had to make arrangements for somebody to go back and pick
up 223 car and take it back.
Mr. BELIN. That last call then was made at 1:53 p.m., in which you
advised who was in the car?
Mr. HILL. With us en route to the station.
Mr. BELIN. And the first one that you made after you got to the car was
at 1:52 p.m.?
Mr HILL. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now, also turning to Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A, I notice
that there is another call on car No. 550-2. Was that you at that time,
or not, at 1:40 p.m.?
Would that have been someone else?
Mr. HILL. That probably is R. D. Stringer.
Mr. BELIN. That is not you, then, even though it has a number 550-2?
Mr. HILL. Yes; because Stringer quite probably would have been using
the same call number, because it is more his than it was mine, really,
but I didn't have an assigned call number, so I was using a number I
didn't think anybody would be using, which is call 550-2, instead of
the Westbrook to Batchelor as it indicates here.
Mr. BELIN. Now after, from the time you started in motion until the
time you called in, do you remember anyone saying anything at all in
the car?
Mr. HILL. The suspect was asked what his name was.
Mr. BELIN. What did he say?
Mr. HILL. He never did answer. He just sat there.
Mr. BELIN. Was he asked where he lived?
Mr. HILL. That was the second question that was asked the suspect, and
he didn't answer it, either.
About the time I got through with the radio transmission, I asked Paul
Bentley, "Why don't you see if he has any identification."
Paul was sitting sort of sideways in the seat, and with his right hand
he reached down and felt of the suspect's left hip pocket and said,
"Yes, he has a billfold," and took it out.
I never did have the billfold in my possession, but the name Lee
Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this
identification, I believe, was on the library card.
And he also made the statement that there was some more identification
in this other name which I don't remember, but it was the same name
that later came in the paper that he bought the gun under.
Mr. BELIN. Would the name Hidell mean anything? Alek Hidell?
Mr. HILL. That would be similar. I couldn't say specifically that is
what it was, because this was a conversation and I never did see it
written down, but that sounds like the name that I heard.
Mr. BELIN. Was this the first time you learned of the name?
Mr. HILL. Yes; it was.
Mr. BELIN. All right; when did you learn of his address?
Mr. HILL. There were two different addresses on the identification.
One of them was in Oak Cliff. The other one was in Irving. But as near
as I can recall of the conversation in the car, this was strictly
conversation, because I didn't read any of the stuff. It didn't have an
address on Beckley, that I recall hearing.
Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. Now from the time you got in the car to
the time you got to the station, I believe you said that at least the
second question asked was where do you live, and the man didn't answer?
Mr. HILL. The man didn't answer.
Mr. BELIN. Was he ever asked again where he lived, up to the time you
got to the station?
Mr. HILL. No; I don't believe so, because when Bentley got the
identification out, we had two different addresses. We had two
different names, and the comment was made, "I guess we are going to
have to wait until we get to the station to find out who he actually
is."
After about the time Bentley reached in his pocket and got his
billfold, the suspect made the statement, "I don't know why you are
treating me like this. The only thing I have done is carry a pistol in
a movie."
Then there was a remark made something to the effect, "Yes, sir; you
have done a lot more. You have killed a policeman."
And then the suspect made a remark similar to "Well, you fry for that,"
or something to that effect.
Mr. BELIN. Something to what effect?
Mr. HILL. Well, now, he either made the statement, "You only fry for
that," or "You can fry for that," or a similar statement. Now the exact
words of it, I don't recall.
Mr. BELIN. All right; then what was said?
Mr. HILL. Some more questions were asked as to where he had been prior
to going to the movie, which he did not answer. Some more questions
were asked as to what was his true name, and in neither case did
he ever answer them. He did make a comment, if I recall, about the
handcuffs, about, "I don't see why you handcuffed me." And here again
he repeated the statement, "The only crime I have committed was
carrying a pistol in a movie."
We got the suspect to the city hall as rapidly as possible without
using the siren and red light, but we took advantage of every open spot
we had to make a little speed, and we explained to him this--I did,
before we got into the basement, that there would probably be some
reporters and photographers and cameramen waiting in the basement when
we got to the station, and that if he so desired, we would hold him in
a way that he could hide his face if he wanted to, and also told him he
did not have to speak to the press if he didn't want to.
He didn't comment on this at this point, but as we pulled into the
basement from the Main Street side, we were wanting to get out and get
organized enough that we would set up our wedge again to get him in the
station through the basement, and so we pulled over to what would have
been the southeast side of the basement, got out of the car, and formed
a wedge in the same position that we left the theatre, and told the
suspect again he could hide his face if he wanted to.
And he said, "Why should I hide my face. I haven't done anything to be
ashamed of."
And with that we started walking him up the aisle of the basement and
walked him through the door into the basement of the city hall proper,
put him on the elevator, stayed on the elevator with him, put him back
behind the wall, and sort of formed a wall around him.
Some of the press pushed into the elevator with us.
Got him out on the third floor, walked him into the homicide and
robbery office, placed him in the first interrogation room inside the
homicide and robbery office, and left Officer Walker there with him.
At this point I stood in the door of the, or at the door of the room he
was in.
Reporters wanted to see the pistol. I held it up to them but never
relinquished control of it. I asked Baker at this time, who was
Detective T. L. Baker, if he wanted the pistol, and he said, "No; hold
on to it until later."
I explained to him that this was the suspect on Tippit and did he want
us to make up the arrest sheet, or would they make them up.
We were trying to get together to decide who was going to make the
offense report and get all the little technicalities out of the way
when a detective named Richard Stovall and another one, G. F. Rose,
came up, and the four of us were standing when Captain Fritz walked in.
He walked up to Rose and Stovall and made the statement to them, "Go
get a search warrant and go out to some address on Fifth Street," and
I don't recall the actual street number, in Irving, and "pick up a man
named Lee Oswald."
And I asked the captain why he wanted him, and he said, "Well, he was
employed down at the Book Depository and he had not been present for a
roll call of the employees."
And we said, "Captain, we will save you a trip," or words to that
effect, "Because there he sits."
And with that, we relinquished our prisoner to the homicide and robbery
bureau, to Captain Fritz.
Walker, Bentley, Lyons, Carroll, and I knew that the prisoner had
received a laceration and bruises while effecting his arrest, and that
an officer had been scratched while effecting the arrest, and that
Bentley had sprained an ankle, and Lyons had sprained an ankle while
effecting the arrest--they were fixing to have to make a whole bushel
basket of reports--we adjourned to the personnel office, which was
further down the hall from homicide and I sat down and started to try
to organize the first report on the arrest.
I originally had the heading on it, "Injuries sustained by suspect
while effecting his arrest in connection with the murder of Officer
J. D. Tippit," and a few minutes later Captain Westbrook came in the
office and said that our suspect had admitted being a Communist. This
is strictly hearsay. I did not hear it myself.
He himself also said a few minutes later he had previously been in the
Marine Corps, had a dishonorable discharge, had been to Russia, and
had had some trouble with the police in New Orleans for passing out
pro-Castro literature.
This still is all hearsay because I didn't actually hear it firsthand
myself. And at about this point Captain Westbrook suggested that I
change the heading of my report to include arrest of the suspect in
the assassination of the President and in the murder of Officer J. D.
Tippit, which I did.
I originally wrote the report for Bob Carroll's signature and for my
signature, and left it with the captain to be typed while we moved over
in another office to get a cup of coffee and sort of calm down and
recap the events.
By then McDonald was there, and we had added some information that he
could give us such as the information about "This is it." Which the
suspect allegedly said as he came into contact with him.
The exact location of the officers and who was there on the original
arrest and everything, and we were waiting around for the secretary to
finish the report.
When we got it back ready to sign, Carroll and I were sitting there,
and it had Captain Westbrook's name for signature, and added a
paragraph about he and the FBI agent being there, and not seeing that
it made any difference, I went ahead and signed the report.
Actually, they were there, but I didn't make any corrections.
And as far as the report, didn't allege what they did, but had added a
paragraph to our report to include the fact that he was there, and also
that the FBI agent was there.
Now as to why this was done, your guess is as good as mine.
Mr. BELIN. Were they there at the time?
Mr. HILL. They were there. They got there inside where we were about
the time he was being handcuffed.
Mr. BELIN. All right, let me go back a minute now.
You left the suspect in the custody of homicide?
Mr. HILL. Right.
Mr. BELIN. In what office was he left?
Mr. HILL. He was still in the interrogation room and still in the
homicide and robbery bureau office.
Mr. BELIN. Who was in there with him when you left?
Mr. HILL. When I left the office, Captain Fritz, who was the commander
of the bureau was there, and I had assumed, being that he was the
officer in charge, the highest ranking man there, and it was his bureau
and his office, theoretically he was in possession of the prisoner.
However, now as to specifically who went in and took him out of the
interrogation room and took him to the captain's office, I don't know.
Mr. BELIN. Was Captain Fritz in the interrogation office?
Mr. HILL. Captain Fritz was in the hall. There was a little small
hallway to the door here, and there is a hallway just big enough to
pass through. The suspect was in the interrogation room and Captain
Fritz immediately in front of him.
Mr. BELIN. Was anyone else in the interrogation room when you left?
Mr. HILL. No; Walker was, and when we turned him over to homicide,
Walker came out and Fritz and his people had control of the prisoner.
Mr. BELIN. So when you and Walker left, the nearest office to him was
Fritz'?
Mr. HILL. As far as I know; yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. At any time up to the time you left, did you ever get any
address on the suspect as to where he lived other than the statement
of Captain Fritz that he had this address on Fifth Street somewhere in
Irving?
Mr. HILL. Paul Bentley called off two addresses. One, as I recall,
in Irving, and another one in Oak Cliff, when he was reading from
information inside the suspect's billfold. But neither of these
addresses was an address on 10th or on Beckley.
As to exactly what they were, I don't recall, as I didn't see the
identification.
Mr. BELIN. Would one of them have been an address on Neely Street?
Mr. HILL. It very possibly could be. In fact I believe it was.
Mr. BELIN. To the best of your knowledge, did anyone in the car in
which you were riding down to the police station ever mention any
Beckley Street address for the suspect?
Mr. HILL. No.
Mr. BELIN. To the best of your knowledge, when the suspect was brought
into the police station, up to the time you left him with Captain Fritz
there, had anyone mentioned a Beckley Street address?
Mr. HILL. No.
Mr. BELIN. What else did the suspect say, if anything?
Mr. HILL. Other than the statement he made about brutality in the
theatre, and other than the statements he made in the car about "Why
are you treating me this way? The only thing I have done is carry a
gun," and "Why are you handcuffing me, the only thing I have done is
carry a gun," and when the comment was made about something of killing
an officer, and he said something to the extent that you can only fry
for that, and the man showed absolutely no emotion.
He gave the appearance of being arrogant, and yet he didn't make
boastful statements. He was silent almost the entire time he was in
the car except for the flareup of the brutality in the theatre, and
the two statements or the three statements that he made in the car. He
was silent almost the entire time until we got to the basement when he
made the statement that he didn't know why he should hide his face, he
didn't have anything to be ashamed of.
Mr. BELIN. When the comment was made about frying, did any police
officer in the car say in substance, "Maybe you will find out," or
something like that?
Do you remember anything like that being said?
Mr. HILL. There was probably a sarcastic remark to that made, but as to
the exact words of it, "You will find out," or "You will get a chance
to find out," but I am sure there was an answer to his question, and I
don't recall who said it.
But as near as I can remember, it came from the back seat.
Mr. BELIN. Was there any reply by the suspect along the lines of "Well,
I understand it only takes a minute," or something like that?
Did you hear him say anything like that?
Mr. HILL. I don't recall that statement. It could have been made,
because there were about half a dozen conversations actually going on
in the car.
At one point after I opened the pistol, and I did open it in the car,
and found that one of the slugs or one of the shells did have an
indention to the primer that could have been caused by the hammer, we
made a comment that he tried or he did pull the trigger, and this was
in line with what Hutson had asked me, in the theatre, had I heard the
gun click.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else that happened in the car?
Mr. HILL. Not that I can recall of specific detail.
There was quite a bit of excitement.
Everybody had been in the little scuffle and were huffing and puffing,
and especially me, as fat as I am, but there weren't any, I don't
recall any more direct statements. There was nothing ever said in the
car that I can recall that would have put it at this time. We didn't
have enough to be sure that maybe the two were tied together.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else about the demeanor of the witness at all?
Mr. HILL. Other than as I said, he gave the appearance of arrogance,
but yet he did not talk boastfully. In fact, he talked very little.
This was one of the things that stuck out most about him in my mind,
was how quiet he did keep.
His commenting or relating the statement that the only crime he had
committed was carrying a gun in the theatre, and the refusal to answer
questions as to what his name was and where he lived, this is not
unusual immediately after an arrest, because when a man is arrested, he
is keyed up too, and probably thinks that the best thing that they can
do is keep their mouth shut, and he had previously in the theatre said
he wanted his attorney.
Mr. BELIN. He had said this in the theatre?
Mr. HILL. Yes; when we arrested him, he wanted his lawyer. He knew his
rights.
Mr. BELIN. Did he ever say he requested an attorney on the way down to
the police station?
Mr. HILL. I do not recall.
I was going to say that by making the statement earlier, it is
possible, it is a possibility that he decided the best thing to do was
keep his mouth shut; that is a supposition on my part, and I couldn't
prove it as to the reason he didn't say any more on the way to the
police station.
Mr. BELIN. Where did the police get ahold of his address on Beckley?
Mr. HILL. I don't know. This apparently came from homicide later, and
once we turned him over to homicide, with the exception of seeing him
walking down the hall again in front of several TV people later in the
day, I had nothing else to do with the man. I never saw him again.
Mr. BELIN. Sergeant Hill, from the time he was handcuffed until the
time you turned him over to Captain Fritz, except for the moments that
he was in the room with Officer Walker in the interrogation room, were
you with the suspect at all times?
Mr. HILL. Yes; and I was also with him when I was standing in the
doorway of the room when he was there, with Walker. The door was never
closed.
Mr. BELIN. The door was never closed?
Mr. HILL. No.
Mr. BELIN. While you were standing in the doorway with Walker, did the
man, suspect, say anything at all, or not?
Mr. HILL. Not that I recall, sir. At this time when I was in the
doorway, I was talking to Baker and had my attention more on him and
what he was saying, because at that point we were trying to decide if
he wanted the gun, if we were going to make the offense, or homicide,
or the officers that stayed out at the scene to wait for the crime lab.
We were talking trying to get the paperwork straight.
Mr. BELIN. How far was the suspect from you at this time?
Mr. HILL. Sitting across the table, about as wide as this, and maybe 2
more feet to the door.
Mr. BELIN. About how far would that be?
Mr. HILL. About 6 feet.
Mr. BELIN. How close was the other officer to you?
Mr. HILL. The other officer was at the end of the table here. He was
probably 4 feet from me and 4 feet from the suspect.
Mr. BELIN. Did you hear the other officer say anything to the suspect?
Mr. HILL. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BELIN. Did you hear the suspect say anything at all?
Mr. HILL. I didn't hear the suspect say anything at all. Other than the
statement he made in the basement, I didn't hear him utter another word.
Mr. BELIN. If the suspect had told anyone his address from the time he
was apprehended until the time he was turned over to Captain Fritz,
would you have been in a position to hear that statement made?
Mr. HILL. With my attention diverted talking to Baker, it is possible
that he could have given his address to Walker without me hearing it,
but I can't say for sure.
Mr. BELIN. Apart from what he may have said to Walker, if there was
anything else that he could have said except for during that period,
would you have heard it if he said anything about living on North
Beckley?
Mr. HILL. I am sure until the time that the suspect was turned over
to Fritz, other than maybe a couple of words exchanged between Walker
and the suspect while I was standing in the door talking to Baker, I
am sure I would have heard it, and I never did hear the address North
Beckley mentioned until much later in the day, and this was strictly
hearsay, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Well, did you hear any Beckley Street address mentioned?
Mr. HILL. I didn't hear anything on Beckley mentioned until probably 7
or 8 o'clock that night.
Mr. BELIN. Did you talk to Walker after he left the interrogation room?
Mr. HILL. Talked to Walker after he left the interrogation room. He
came into the personnel office with us, and we sat down and made sure
that--we just talked over our story and made sure that we had all the
details as to who was where in the arrest, what door the man came in
into the theatre, where they were when the original contact was made,
how Bentley hurt his foot, how Lyons hurt his foot, and all this, and
decided, well, rather than have to get everybody back together and
round them up and all six or seven people sign the one report, it
was decided that Carroll and I would be the only two that signed it,
and that Bentley would go on to the hospital and get his foot fixed,
and Lyons would go to the hospital and get his foot fixed, and after
McDonald finally got down there to the station and we sent him over to
the city hall to get the scratch on his face treated, and then the rest
of the time, with the exception of going across the hall for a cup of
coffee, probably I didn't get out of the office to almost 5 o'clock.
Mr. BELIN. Did Walker ever mention to you any conversation he had with
Oswald in the interrogation room?
Mr. HILL. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you and he discuss all the conversations that were had
with the prisoner?
Mr. HILL. With the exception of getting some information from McDonald
as to what Oswald actually said at the time of his contact with him in
the theatre, the statement to the effect, "This is it," I figured that
I had been in on the conversation when he was discussing the brutality
and the statements he made in the car, and the statement he made in the
basement when we were telling him he could duck his head if he wanted
to, enough that I had all the information that I needed for the report,
so I never did discuss any of the conversation that could possibly have
taken place between Walker and the suspect in the interrogation room.
Mr. BELIN. Over what period of time span would that have been that he
was in the interrogation room and you were standing in the doorway
there?
Mr. HILL. Probably 3 or 4 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. Now, when you were going down to the station in the car, I
believe the question was asked of the suspect to give his name and his
address and he refused, is that correct?
Mr. HILL. He didn't answer either question. He didn't say, "I am not
going to tell you anything." He just didn't answer, that is all.
Mr. BELIN. But at least Officer Walker never told you that he finally
answered that question, did he?
Mr. HILL. No.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you had one report that you entitled "The arrest of
Lee Harvey Oswald," which pertained to the Texas Theatre. Did you have
any other report that you made at all, or not?
Mr. HILL. I had to make one later about a telephone call that I made
from San Antonio to Dallas when we got the flash down there on Sunday
morning that Oswald had been shot. I was attending a meeting down there.
Mr. BELIN. Well, apart from that, anything?
Mr. HILL. Also, I made a statement to the FBI concerning the fact
that I had known Jack Ruby prior to this thing. But as far an another
report, other than the original report that afternoon on the arrest of
the suspect, I don't recall writing any other report after that one
report that was signed by Carroll and I and Captain Westbrook is the
only one I wrote on the actual arrest.
Mr. BELIN. I see one 2-page report that is signed by you.
Mr. HILL. Can I look at it?
Mr. BELIN. You bet you can.
[Handing to witness.]
Mr. HILL. This was later when they wanted a report from each individual
officer. Yes, sir; I did write this.
Mr. BELIN. You are referring to a report dated what?
Mr. HILL. This would have been dated November 22, sir, and it is signed
by Captain Westbrook and Bob Carroll and myself. I do not have it with
me, but in case it is not in there, I have a carbon copy of it with all
three signatures on it.
Mr. BELIN. Did you have anything to do with either the assassination
investigation or the Tippit investigation on Saturday, November 23?
Mr. HILL. No, sir; I was off that day.
And then on Sunday the 24th, I had flown out of Dallas that morning
on a Braniff flight to San Antonio with a sergeant from Dallas and
captain from Garland and captain from Denison to attend a state board
meeting of the Texas Municipal Police Association in San Antonio at the
International Building, and we took a coffee break somewhere around
11:30 or 12, I don't know the exact time.
Mr. BELIN. When was the last time you saw Jack Ruby prior to the
shooting of Oswald?
Mr. HILL. It was probably 6 to 8 weeks, and that was a contact that I
was walking by a garage one night about the time he came down to get
his car, and we talked for a minute and that is all.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what you said or what he said at all, or not?
Mr. HILL. It just was a greeting. We hadn't seen each other in quite a
while. In the interim, I had been on--normally when I was on a rotating
schedule of working evenings and deep nights, the Carousel Club was
located in the district that I worked quite often, and I would stop in
there once in a while, and I had been on a special assignment for about
2 months working straight days, in town and out of town, and I hadn't
been by or hadn't seen him, and this particular night we ran into each
other, and he wanted to know what I was doing, and I told him I was
working in personnel.
And he said, I haven't been much around much lately, and I said, "I am
staying home."
Mr. BELIN. When was the last time you saw him prior to that meeting?
Mr. HILL. Probably the last time, I was in his place on duty, maybe 3
or 4 weeks before this.
Mr. BELIN. I wonder if you would describe the situation in the police
department on the third floor with regard to reporters or what have you
during the period of time that you brought Oswald in and during the
rest of the time you might have been there on the afternoon of November
22?
What did you find when you got there?
Mr. HILL. There wasn't anybody except the ones that were down in the
basement waiting for us to bring him in, and they were standing in the
doorway, that if you turned to the right, you go in the jail office.
If you go straight, you go into the basement of the building.
Some of them rode up on the elevator with us. When we started off the
elevator, they got ahead of us and shot us walking down the hall and
took pictures of us going to homicide.
We carried him into the interrogation room and they followed us into
the homicide office.
At this time probably there were six or seven people, Jim Underwood
from KRLD was one of them, and I don't recall any more specifically by
name.
But as time went by in the afternoon, more and more people came in
until I would say about 6:45 or 7 o'clock that night, the night of
the 22d, when I left, there were some 70- or 80-odd reporters and
floodlights and two or three live cameras and several more cameras on
tripods, and out-of-town reporters, and local reporters, and everything
else, that officers were on duty and in uniform to keep the halls open
as much as possible.
And if you wanted to go from the elevator entrance on back toward
homicide or to any of the other detective offices, you had to drag your
way through TV cables and bodies of people, seesawing your course to
get through there.
Mr. BELIN. Now you have stated when we first started this deposition
that you had some background in either newspaper or radio or television?
Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.
I worked at the Herald both as a police reporter, as a newswriter,
and a radio-TV editor, and left there and went with WBAP as a member
of their Dallas Bureau, covering the, working out of an office in the
police station here in Dallas, and covering police news and all other
types of news also.
Mr. BELIN. Was there any request ever made to the press people to clear
the hall or clear the floor at all?
Mr. HILL. Not to my personal knowledge; no, sir. It could have been
made when I wasn't there, or it could have been made before I got
there, or after I left or while I was in an office or something, but I
don't know that a direct order was ever given to get everybody out.
Mr. BELIN. Could you tell us what general discussion there was among
the officers, the line officers, without quoting any names that might
embarrass anyone, about all of these people and paraphernalia there?
Mr. HILL. As to the situation, we commented that it was a bad thing
that we didn't have a space big enough to put everybody and make press
releases to them like they did in some of the eastern cities.
I think somebody brought up the fact that in New York you wouldn't do
what was done here because everybody had to go to one place and when
they got ready to tell you something, they would come in and make a
formal announcement, and if they wanted to throw it open for questions
they did, and if they didn't they would walk out.
There was commenting on the smallness of the space that we had to work
in and the inconvenience there, and the building, had it been Brooklyn,
it wouldn't have created as much congestion and all.
But there was a feeling of congeniality between the police and the
press, and I observed some of the officers that did have to go ask
somebody to move or get out of the way, or not block a door, or so, or
not block this, and the press was very nice about cooperating and doing
at that time what they were asked to do.
What happened Saturday and Sunday, I don't know. But it was rather
crowded, I will make that statement.
Mr. BELIN. Sergeant Hill, I have handed you these six bullets that you
previously identified with your signature on it here, and asked you
to examine and try to find which one, if any, had a scratch that you
talked about, and you picked out what might properly be the one.
What is the fact as to whether or not this depression was a deep one or
was one that you found difficult to see?
Mr. HILL. It was one that I found difficult to see at the time.
However, the bullets had not been handled as much at that time, and
they were less shiny, and evidence would have been a little better on a
dull shell where a new marking had been made on it rather than one that
had been handled a few times.
Mr. BELIN. The two that you picked out are marked, I believe, "Q-80"
and the other one is "Q-177," is that it?
Mr. HILL. That's right.