Mr. BELIN. When did he do that?
Mr. HILL. As soon as he handed it to me.
Mr. BELIN. When was that?
Mr. HILL. Right as I sat down in the car, he apparently had it in his
belt, and as he started to sit down, he handed it to me. I was already
in the car and seated.
Mr. BELIN. Now I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission
Exhibit 143. Would you state if you know what this is?
Mr. HILL. This is a .38 caliber revolver. Smith & Wesson, with a 2"
barrel that would contain six shells. It is an older gun that has been
blue steeled, and has a worn wooden handle.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever seen this gun before?
Mr. HILL. I am trying to see my mark on it to make sure, sir. I don't
recall specifically where I marked it, but I did mark it, if this is
the one. I don't remember where I did mark it, now.
Here it is, Hill right here, right in this crack.
Mr. BELIN. Officer, you have just pointed out a place which I will
identify as a metal portion running along the butt of the gun. Can you
describe it any more fully?
Mr. HILL. It would be to the inside of the pistol grip holding the gun
in the air. It would begin under the trigger guard to where the last
name H-i-l-l is scratched in the metal.
Mr. BELIN. Who put that name in there?
Mr. HILL. I did.
Mr. BELIN. When did you do that?
Mr. HILL. This was done at approximately 4 p.m., the afternoon of
Friday, November 22, 1963, in the personnel office of the police
department.
Mr. BELIN. Did you keep that gun in your possession until you scratched
your name on it?
Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BELIN. Was this gun the gun that Officer Carroll handed to you?
Mr. HILL. And identified to me as the suspect's weapon.
Mr. BELIN. This is what has now been marked as Commission Exhibit 143,
is that correct?
Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; that is what it says.
Mr. BELIN. It also says the number on this sack in kind of a red ink or
something "C15" on it, too, is that right?
Mr. HILL. It has C15, and on the other side it has 176-G, whatever that
is.
Mr. BELIN. And then we have marked Commission Exhibit 143?
Mr. HILL. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Now, you said as the driver of the car, Bob Carroll, got in
the car, he handed this gun to you?
Mr. HILL. Right, sir.
Mr. BELIN. All right, then, would you tell us what happened? What was
said and what was done?
Mr. HILL. Then I broke the gun open to see how many shells it contained
and how many live rounds it had in it.
Mr. BELIN. How many did you find?
Mr. HILL. There were six in the chambers of the gun. One of them had an
indention in the primer that appeared to be caused by the hammer. There
were five others. All of the shells at this time had indentions.
All of the shells appeared to have at one time or another scotch tape
on them because in an area that would have been the width of a half
inch strip of scotch tape, there was kind of a bit of lint and residue
on the jacket of the shell.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever mark those?
Mr. HILL. I can say that I marked all six of them.
Mr. BELIN. I am first going to hand you what has been marked Q-178 on
the lead portion. It is 178 or 170. It appears to be Q-178, with the
initials JH running together and CK, and then another initial R, with a
dash behind it.
Do you see any identification mark of yours on there at all?
Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; on the side of the jacket of the bullet there is
the name scratched H-i-l-l, and also the initials BC. I scratched the
H-i-l-l on this shell, and Bob Carroll scratched the BC on it in my
presence in the personnel office of the police department on the third
floor.
Mr. BELIN. What is that?
Mr. HILL. This is one of the shells which is a .38 special shell that
was removed from the suspect's weapon, removed from the weapon that was
taken from the suspect at the time of his arrest.
Mr. BELIN. When was it removed?
Mr. HILL. They were not taken out of the gun, as I recall, sir, until
we arrived at the station.
Mr. BELIN. Who took it out of the gun?
Mr. HILL. I took it out of the gun.
Mr. BELIN. Did you keep it in your possession until you put on your
initials?
Mr. HILL. All six shells remained in my possession until I initialed
them.
Mr. BELIN. Was this an empty shell or live bullet?
Mr. HILL. That is a live round.
Mr. BELIN. For what caliber?
Mr. HILL. A .38 caliber.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you another bullet which has been marked
Q-177.
Mr. HILL. That appears to be Q-177.
It's also on the what appears to be the copper tip has the initial JH
running together, the initials CK on it also.
It is a Western .38 special bullet. It has not been fired. It is
a copper-colored slug. On the case of this shell is also the name
H-i-l-l, which was placed there on November 22.
Mr. BELIN. Let the record show that I believe that these are Exhibit
145, but I am not sure. I mean Commission Exhibit 145, and therefore, I
identified them by the "Q" number which is on the bullet itself.
Was this also something that you took out?
Mr. HILL. This would have been another of the shells, and the gun.
Mr. BELIN. I hand you four more bullets which have been marked as, I
believe they are Commission Exhibit 518, but again I will withhold that
identification.