_Here beginneth the anthology of the second book._
_A._ Alas! Long have we been unoccupied, yet we have not sought after
_what thou didst promise me_.
_R._ _Let us make amends for it_; let us carry it forward into another
book.
_A._ Yea, let us indeed.
_R._ Let us believe that God is our Helper.
_A._ Truly would I that we believed it, if I had power. _But methinks
faith is not in our power, in such measure as we seek, unless_ God give
it to us.
_R._ _Both faith and all the good that we shall have. Therefore I know
not what else we can do without His help. Howbeit I advise thee that
thou begin it._ Pray in as few words as thou most sincerely canst, _and
ask for that which is and may be most needful for thee_.
_A._ _Then said I_: 'Lord, Lord, Thou who remainest unchangeable, grant
me these _two things which I always wished_, to wit, that I may
understand Thee and myself.' _Now I have done as thou didst instruct
me_; truly have I prayed.
_R._ _Now I hear what thou wishest to know. Howbeit I would first learn
from thee whether thou knowest without doubt_ that thou dost exist or
not; _or that thou dost live or dost not live_.
_A._ _These are two things which_ I certainly know.
_R._ What now wishest thou to know?
_A._ Whether I be immortal.
_R._ I hear that thou wouldst live always.
_A._ That I confess.
_R._ Wilt thou, then, know enough if I cause thee to know that thou
mayest live always?
[Sidenote: 56.13--58.22]
_A._ That is a very good desire; _yet say what I ask thee about: whether
I shall live always; and then I would know whether I, after the parting
of the body and the soul, shall ever know more than I now know of all
that which I have long wished to know; for I can not find any thing
better in man than that he know, and nothing worse than that he be
ignorant_.
_R._ Now I know all that thou wishest: One thing is, thou wouldst exist;
another, thou wouldst live; the third, thou wouldst know. And I know
also why thou wishest these three things: Thou wouldst exist in order to
live, and thou wouldst live in order to know. And these three things I
hear that thou certainly knowest: Thou knowest that thou art, and thou
knowest that thou livest, and thou also knowest that thou knowest
something, albeit thou knowest not all that thou wouldst know.
_A._ That is true. _These three things I know, and these three things I
desire. I would exist in order that I may live. What would I care
whether I existed, if I lived not? Or what would I care for life, if I
knew nothing?_
_R._ _Now I hear that thou lovest all that thou dost love on account of
these three things, and I know also which of the three things thou
lovest most. Thou lovest to exist because thou wouldst live, and thou
wouldst live in order to know. Thus I perceive that thou lovest wisdom
above all other things. That, methinks, is the highest good, and also
thy God._
_A._ _Truth thou sayest to me. What is the highest wisdom other than the
highest good? Or what is the highest good except that every man in this
world love God as much as he loveth wisdom--whether he love it much, or
little, or moderately? So much as he loveth wisdom, so much doth he love
God._
_R._ _Very rightly thou hast understood it. But I would we began again
where we were before. Now thou knowest that thou art, and that thou
livest, and that thou knowest something, albeit not so much as thou
wouldst; and a fourth thing thou wouldst also know, to wit, whether the
three things all be eternal or not, or whether any of them be eternal;
or, if they are all eternal, whether any of them after this world in the
eternal life shall either become worse or wane._
[Sidenote: 58.22--59.27]
_A._ _All my yearning hast thou understood very well._
_R._ _About what doubtest thou now? Didst thou not before confess that
God is eternal and almighty, and hath created two rational and eternal
creatures, as we before said, namely: angels and men's souls, to which
He hath given eternal gifts? These gifts they need never lose. If thou
now rememberest this and believest this, then knowest thou beyond doubt
that thou art, and always wilt be, and always wilt love, and always wilt
know something, albeit thou mayest not know all that thou wouldst. Now
thou knowest about those three things that thou askedst about, namely:
(1) Whether thou art immortal; (2) Whether thou shalt know something
throughout eternity; (3) Whether thou, after the parting of the body and
the soul, shalt know more than thou now knowest, or less. After the
fourth we shall still seek--now that thou knowest the three--until thou
also know that._
_A._ _Very orderly thou dost explain it, but I will yet say to thee what
I firmly believe, and about what I yet doubt. I do not doubt at all
about God's immortality and about His omnipotence, for it can not be
else respecting the trinity and the unity, which was without beginning
and is without end. Therefore I can not otherwise believe, for He hath
created so great and so many and so wonderful visible creatures; and He
ruleth them all and directeth them all, and at one time adorneth them
with the most winsome appearances, while at another time He taketh away
their adornments and beauties. He ruleth the kings who have the most
power on this earth--who like all men are born, and also perish like
other men. Then He letteth them rule while He willeth. For such and for
many such things I do not know how I can doubt His eternity; and also
about the life of our souls I do not now doubt any more. But I doubt yet
about the eternity of souls, whether they are immortal._
[Sidenote: 59.28--60.29]
_R._ _About what dost thou doubt? Are not all the holy books well nigh
full of the immortality of the soul? But methinks that too long to
enumerate now in full, and too long for thee to hear._
_A._ _I have heard a good deal of it, and I also believe it; but I
desire rather to know it than to believe it._
_R._ _I wonder why thou yearnest to know so very much and so certainly
what no man in the prison of this present life ever so certainly could
know as thou wishest, although many yearn to understand it more clearly
in this present life than many others believe it from the sayings of
these and truthful men. No one can ever understand all that he would,
till the soul be parted from the body; nor indeed before Doomsday so
clearly as he would. And yet the holy Fathers that were before us knew
very truly about that which thou before didst ask, to wit, about the
immortality of men's souls, which was so clear to them that they had no
doubt, since they despised this present life[11] ... they would be
parted; and just as they endured the greatest torments in this world, so
they would afterward have the greater reward in the eternal life.
Through the sayings of such men we should infer that we can not
understand it as clearly as they could; howbeit as regards the
immortality of the soul, if thou dost not yet assent to it, I will make
thee to understand it, and I will also cause thee to be ashamed that
thou understoodest it so slowly._
[11] A break in the MS.
_A._ _Even so do! Cause me to be ashamed therefor._
_R._ _Behold, I know that thou hast to-day the lord whom thou trustest
in all things better than thyself; and so also hath many a servant who
hath a less powerful lord than thou hast; and I know that thou hast also
many friends whom thou trustest well enough, though thou dost not trust
them altogether so well as thou dost thy lord. How seemeth it to thee
now, if thy lord should tell thee some news which thou never before
heardest, or if he should say to thee that he saw something which thou
never sawest? Doth it seem to thee that thou wouldst doubt his
statement at all, because thou didst not see it thyself?_
[Sidenote: 60.29--61.29]
_A._ _Nay, nay, verily; there is no story so incredible that I would not
believe it, if he should tell it. Yea, I even have many companions,
whom, if they should say that they themselves saw or heard it, I would
believe just as well as if I myself saw or heard it._
_R._ _I hear now that thou believest thy lord better than thyself, and
thy companions quite as well as thyself. Thou dost very rightly and very
reasonably, in that thou hast such good faith in them. But I would that
thou shouldst tell me whether Honorius, the son of Theodosius, seem to
thee wiser or more truthful than Christ, the Son of God._
_A._ _Nay, verily nay; nowhere near! But methinks that it is difficult
for thee to compare them together. Honorius is very good, although his
father was better; the latter was very devout and very prudent and very
rightly of my lord's kin; and so is he who still liveth there. I will
honor them just as a man should a worldly lord, and the others of whom
thou didst formerly speak just as their masters, and as one should the
king who is the King of all kings, and the Creator and Ruler of all
creatures._
_R._ _Now I hear that the Almighty God pleaseth thee better than
Theodosius; and Christ, the Son of God, better than Honorius, the son of
Theodosius. I blame thee not that thou lovest both, but I advise thee to
love the higher lords more, for they know all that they wish and can
perform all that they wish._
_A._ _All that thou sayest is true. I believe it all._
_R._ _Now I hear that thou trustest the higher lord better. But I would
know whether it seem to thee that thy worldly lords have wiser and truer
servants than the higher lords have. Trustest thou now thyself and thy
companions better than thou dost the Apostles, who were the servants of
Christ Himself? Or the Patriarchs? Or the Prophets, through whom God
Himself spake to His people what He would?_
_A._ _Nay, nay; I trust not ourselves so well, nor anywhere near, as I
do them._
[Sidenote: 61.30--62.30]
_R._ _What spake God then more often, or what said He more truly through
His Prophets to His people than about the immortality of souls? Or what
spake the Apostles and all the holy Fathers more truly if not about the
eternity of souls and about their immortality? Or what meant Christ,
when He said in His Gospel: 'The unrighteous shall go into eternal
torments, and the righteous into eternal life'? Now thou hearest what
said Christ and His Apostles; and I heard before that thou didst doubt
nothing of the word of Honorius and his servants. Why doubtest thou,
then, about the words of Christ, the Son of God, and those of the
Apostles, which they themselves uttered? They spake to us more of such
like words than we can count, and with many examples and proofs they
explained it to us. Why canst thou, then, not believe them all, and why
saidst thou before that thou wert their man?_
_A._ _So I say still, and say that I believe them, and also know exactly
that it is all true that God either through Himself or through them
said; for there are more of these occurrences in the holy books than I
can ever count. Therefore I am now ashamed that I ever doubted about it,
and I confess that I am rightly convinced, and I shall always be much
happier when thou dost convince me of such things than I ever was when I
convinced another man. All this I knew, however, before; but I forgot
it, as I fear also that I shall this. I know also that I had so clean
forgotten it that I should never have remembered it again, if thou hadst
not cited me clearer examples, both about my lord and about many
parables._
_R._ _I wonder why thou couldst ever suppose that men's souls were not
eternal, for thou clearly enough knewest that they are the highest and
the most blessed of the creatures of God; and thou knowest also clearly
enough that He alloweth no creature entirely to pass away so that it
cometh to naught--not even the most unworthy of all. But He beautifieth
and adorneth all creatures, and again taketh away their beauty and
adornments, and yet again reneweth them. They all so change, however,
that they pass away, and suddenly come again and return to that same
beauty and to the same winsomeness for the children of men, in which
they were before Adam sinned. Now thou canst perceive that no creature
so fully passeth away that it cometh not again, nor so fully perisheth
that it doth not become something. Now that the weakest creatures do not
pass away entirely, why then supposest thou that the most blessed
creature should entirely depart?_
[Sidenote: 62.30--63.34]
_A._ _Alas! I am beset with wretched forgetfulness, so that I can not
remember it as well as before. Methinks now that thou hadst explained it
to me clearly enough by this one example, though thou hadst said nothing
more._
_R._ _Seek now in thyself the examples and the signs, and thou canst
know well what thou before wouldst know, and what I explained to thee by
the concrete examples. Ask thine own mind why it is so desirous and so
zealous to know what was formerly, before thou wert born, or ever thy
grandfather was born; and ask it also why it knoweth what is now present
and what it seeth and heareth every day; or why it wisheth to know what
shall be hereafter. Then I suppose it will answer thee, if it is
discreet, and say that it desireth to know what was before us for the
reason that it always existed since the time that God created the first
man; and therefore aspireth to what it formerly was, to know what it
formerly knew, although it is now so heavily weighed with the burden of
the body that it can not know what it formerly knew. And I suppose that
it will say to thee that it knoweth what it here seeth and heareth,
because it is here in this world; and I suppose also that it will say
that it wisheth to know what shall happen after our days, because it
knoweth that it shall ever be._
_A._ _Methinks now that thou hast clearly enough said that every man's
soul ever is, and ever shall be, and ever was since God first made the
first man._
_R._ _There is no doubt that souls are immortal. Believe thine own
reason, and believe Christ, the Son of God, and believe all His
sayings, because they are very reliable witnesses; and believe thine own
soul, which always saith to thee through its reason that it is in thee;
it saith also that it is eternal, because it wisheth eternal things. It
is not so foolish a creature as to seek that which it can not find, nor
wish for that which doth not belong to it. Give over now thy foolish
doubting. Clear enough it is that thou art eternal and shalt ever
exist._
[Sidenote: 63.34--64.35]
_A._ _That I hear and that I believe and clearly know, and I am rejoiced
as I never was at anything. Now I hear that my soul is eternal and ever
liveth, and that the mind shall ever hold all that my mind and my reason
gathered of good virtues. And I hear also that my intellect is eternal.
But I wish yet to know what I before asked about the intellect: whether
it shall, after the parting of the body and the soul, wax or wane, or
shall stand still in one place, or do as it before did in this
world--for a time wax, then for a time wane. I know now that life and
reason are eternal, albeit I fear that it shall be in that world as it
is here in children. I do not suppose that the life there shall be
without reason, any more than it is here in children; in that case there
would be too little winsomeness in that life._
_R._ _I hear now what thou wouldst know, but I can not tell thee in a
few words. If thou wilt know it clearly, then shalt thou seek it in the
book which we call_ De Videndo Deo. _In English the book is called_ Of
Seeing God. _But be now of good cheer, and think over what thou hast now
learned, and let us both pray that He may help us, for He promised that
He would aid every one who called on Him and rightly wished it; and He
promised without any doubt that He would teach us after this world that
we might very certainly know perfect wisdom and full truthfulness, which
thou mayest hear about more clearly in the book which I have before
named to thee_--De Videndo Deo.
_Here endeth the anthology of the second book which we call_
Soliloquies.