THE PRESIDENT: Well, Defendant, the Tribunal would like to know whether
you did say to the Regent Horthy that Jews ought to be taken to
concentration camps.
VON RIBBENTROP: I consider it possible that such may have been the case,
for we had, at that time, received an order that a concentration camp
was to be installed near Budapest or else that the Jews should be
centralized there, and the Führer had instructed me a long time before
to discuss with the Hungarians a possible solution of the Jewish
question. This solution should consist of two points. One was the
removal of the Jews from important government positions and two, since
there were so many Jews in Budapest, to centralize the Jews in certain
quarters of Budapest.
THE PRESIDENT: I understand your suggestion to be that this document is
inaccurate.
VON RIBBENTROP: Yes, it is not accurate. The way I should like to put
it, Mr. President, is that when reading the document, it would appear
from this document that I considered it possible or desirable to beat
the Jews to death. That is perfectly untrue but what I did say here and
what I emphasized later on could be understood to mean only that I
wished something to be done in Hungary to solve the Jewish problem, so
that other departments should not interfere in the matter. For the
Führer often spoke to me about it, very seriously indeed, saying that
the Jewish problem in Hungary must be solved now...
THE PRESIDENT: You have told us that, I think, already. What I wanted to
ask you was this: Are you suggesting that Schmidt, who drew up this
memorandum, invented the last few sentences, beginning with the words:
“If the Jews there did not want to work they would be shot. If
they could not work they would have to perish. They had to be
treated like tuberculosis bacilli with which a healthy body may
become infected. This was not cruel if one remembered that
innocent creatures of nature, such as hares or deer, have to be
killed so that no harm is caused by them. Why should the beasts
who wanted to bring us Bolshevism be shown more leniency?
Nations which did not rid themselves of Jews perished. One of
the most famous examples of this was the downfall of a people
who once were so proud, the Persians, who now lead a pitiful
existence as Armenians.”
Are you suggesting that Schmidt invented those sentences or imagined
them?
VON RIBBENTROP: Mr. President, I should like to add that I myself was
very grieved by these words of the Führer, and I did not quite
understand them. But perhaps this attitude can be understood only if we
remember that the Führer believed that the Jews had caused this war, and
that he had gradually developed a very fanatical hatred for them.
I remember too that later on, after this conference, I discussed with
the interpreter Schmidt and the two gentlemen the fact that this was the
first time the Führer had used expressions in connection with the Jewish
problem which I could no longer understand. These words were certainly
not invented by Schmidt. The Führer did express himself in some such way
at that time. That is true.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, M. Faure.
M. FAURE: It appears from his document that you thought there were
concentration camps in Hungary and yet you said yesterday that you did
not know there were any in Germany. Is that not so?
VON RIBBENTROP: I did not know that there were any concentration camps
in Hungary, but I did say that the Führer had instructed me to ask
Horthy to ask the Hungarian Government to concentrate the Jews in
Budapest, in certain parts of the city of Budapest. As to concentration
camps in Germany, I already spoke yesterday about my knowledge of that
subject.
M. FAURE: You admitted that you knew Hitler’s policy to deport all Jews
and you admitted that insofar as you were competent as Minister for
Foreign Affairs, you assisted this policy, did you not? That is right,
is it not?
VON RIBBENTROP: As his faithful follower I adhered to the Führer’s
orders even in this field, but I always did my utmost to alleviate the
situation as far as possible. This can be stated and proved by many
witnesses. Even in 1943 I submitted a comprehensive memorandum to the
Führer in which I urged him to alter the Jewish policy completely. I
could also quote many other examples.
M. FAURE: If I understand your testimony rightly, you were morally
opposed to this persecution of Jews, but you did help to carry them out,
is that not so?
VON RIBBENTROP: I repeatedly said at the very beginning of my
examination, that in that sense I have never been anti-Semitic. But I
was a faithful follower of Adolf Hitler.
M. FAURE: Apart from the Jewish question, you dealt with arrests of
French people, did you not?
VON RIBBENTROP: The arrests of Frenchmen...