INTERVIEW WITH MAYOR SHERMAN.

At this stage of my Narrative it may not be inappropriate to narrate my

interview with Mayor Sherman, of Chicago, since it not only discloses one

of the dangers and the difficulties I had to encounter, in prosecuting my

enterprise, but also serves as another exemplification of that marital

power which is legally guaranteed to the husband, leaving the wife utterly

helpless, and legally defenceless.

I called upon him at his office in the court house, and was received with

respectful, manly courtesy. After introducing myself as the Mrs. Packard

whose case had recently acquired so much notoriety through the Chicago

press, and after briefly recapitulating the main facts of the persecution,

I said to him:

"Now, Mr. Sherman, as the Mayor of this city, I appeal to you for

protection, while printing my book in your city. Will you protect me

here?"

"Why, Mrs. Packard, what protection do you need? What dangers do you

apprehend?"

"Sir, I am a married woman, and my husband is my persecutor, therefore I

have no legal protection. The husband is, you probably know, the wife's

only protector in the law, therefore, what I want now, Sir, is protection

against my protector!"

"Is he in this city?"

"No, Sir; but his agents are, and he can delegate his power to them, and

authorize them what to do."

"What do you fear he will do?"

"I fear he may intercept the publication of my book; for you probably

know, Sir, he can come either himself, or by proxy, and, with his Sheriff,

can demand my manuscript of my printer, and the printer, nor you, Sir,

have no legal power to defend it. He can demand it, and burn it, and I am

helpless in legal self-defense. For, Sir, my identity was legally lost in

his, when I married him, leaving me nothing and nobody in law; and

besides, all I have is his in law, and of course no one can prosecute him

for taking his own things--my manuscript is his, and entirely at his

disposal. I have no right in law even to my own thoughts, either spoken or

written--he has even claimed the right to superintend my written thoughts

as well as post office rights. I can not claim these rights--they are mine

only as he grants me them as his gifts to me."

"What does your printer say about it?"

"He says if the Sheriff comes to him for the book he shall tell him he

must get the book where he can find it; _I_ shall not find it for him. I

then said to my printer, supposing he should come with money, and offer to

buy the manuscript, what then?" "I say, it will take more money than there

is in Chicago to buy that manuscript of us," replied my printer.

"I think that sounds like protection, Mrs. Packard. I think you have

nothing to fear."

"No, Mr. Sherman, I have nothing to fear from the manliness of my printer,

for this is my sole and only protection--but as one man to whom I trusted

even myself, has proved a traitor to his manliness, is there not a

possibility another may. I should not object to a double guard, since the

single guard of manliness has not even protected me from imprisonment."

"Well, Mrs. Packard, you shall have my protection; and I can also assure

you the protection of my counsel, also. If you get into trouble, apply to

us, and we will give you all the help the laws will allow."

"I beg you to consider, Sir; the laws do not allow you to interfere in

such a matter. Are you authorized to stop a man from doing a _legal_ act?"

"No, Mrs. Packard, I am not. I see you are without any legal protection.

Still I think you are safe in Chicago."

"I hope it may so prove, Sir. But one thing more I wish your advice about;

how can I keep the money I get for my book from Mr. Packard, the legal

owner of it?"

"Keep it about your person, so he can't get it."

"But, Sir; Mr. Packard has a right to my person in law, and can take it

anywhere, and put it where he pleases; and if he can get my person, he can

take what is on it."

"That's so--you are in a bad case, truly--I must say, I never before knew

that any one under our government was so utterly defenceless as you are.

Your case ought to be known. Every soldier in our army ought to have one

of your books, so as to have our laws changed."

Soldiers of our army! receive this tacit compliment from Mayor Sherman.

_You_ are henceforth to hold the reins of the American Government. And it

is my candid opinion, they could not be in better or safer hands. And in

your hands would I most confidently trust my sacred cause--the cause of

Married Woman; for, so far as my observation extends, no class of

American citizens are more manly, than our soldiers. I am inclined to

cherish the idea, that gallantry and patriotism are identified; at least,

I find they are almost always associated together in the same manly heart.

When I had sold about half of my twelve thousand books, I resolved to

visit my relatives in Massachusetts, who had not seen me for about twelve

years. I felt assured that my dear father, and brothers, and my kind

step-mother, were all looking at the facts of my persecution from a wrong

stand-point; and I determined to risk my exposure to Mr. Packard's

persecuting power again, so far as to let my relatives see me once for

themselves; hoping thus the scales might drop from their eyes, so far at

least as to protect me from another kidnapping from Mr. Packard.

I arrived first at my brother Austin Ware's house in South Deerfield, who

lives about two miles from Mr. Severance, where were my three youngest

children, and where Mr. Packard spent one day of each week. I spent two

nights with him and his new wife, who both gave me a very kind and patient

hearing; and the result was, their eyes were opened to see their error in

believing me to be an insane person, and expressed their decided

condemnation of the course Mr. Packard had pursued towards me. Brother

became at once my gallant and manly protector, and the defender of my

rights. "Sister," said he, "you have a right to see your children, and you

shall see them. I will send for them to-day." He accordingly sent a team

for them twice, but was twice refused by Mr. Packard, who had heard of my

arrival. Still, he assured me I should see them in due time. He carried me

over to Sunderland, about four miles distant, to my father's house,

promising me I should meet my dear children there; feeling confident that

my father's request joined with his own, would induce Mr. Packard to let

me see once more my own dear offspring. As he expected, my father at once

espoused my cause, and assured me I should see my children; "for," added

he, "Mr. Packard knows it will not do for him to refuse me." He then

directed brother to go directly for them himself, and say to Mr. Packard:

"Elizabeth's father requests him to let the children have an interview

with their mother at his house." But, instead of the children, came a

letter from brother, saying, that Mr. Packard has refused, in the most

decided terms, to let sister see her own children; or, to use his own

language, he said, "I came from Illinois to Massachusetts to protect the

children from their mother, and I shall do it, in spite of you, or father

Ware, or any one else!" Brother adds, "the mystery of this dark case is

now solved, in my mind, completely. Mr. Packard is a monomaniac on this

subject; there is no more reason in his treatment of sister, than in a

brute."

These facts of his refusal to let me see my children, were soon in

circulation in the two adjacent villages of Sunderland and South

Deerfield, and a strongly indignant feeling was manifested against Mr.

Packard's defiant and unreasonable position; and he, becoming aware of the

danger to his interests which a conflict with this tide of public

sentiment might occasion, seemed forced, by this pressure of public

opinion, to succumb; for, on the following Monday morning, (this was on

Saturday, P. M.,) he brought all of my three children to my father's

house, with himself and Mrs. Severance, as their body-guard, and with both

as my witnesses, I was allowed to talk with them an hour or two. He

refused me an interview with them alone in my room.

I remained at my father's house a few days only, knowing that even in

Massachusetts the laws did not protect me from another similar outrage, if

Mr. Packard could procure the certificate of two physicians that I was

insane; for, with these alone, without any chance at self-defense, he

could force me into some of the Private Asylums here, as he did into a

State Asylum in Illinois.

I knew that, as I was Mr. Packard's wife, neither my brother nor father

could be my legal protectors in such an event, as they could command no

influence in my defense, except that of public sentiment or mob-law. I

therefore felt forced to leave my father's house in self-defence, to seek

some protection of the Legislature of Massachusetts, by petitioning them

for a change in their laws on the mode of commitment into Insane Asylums.

As a preparatory step, I endeavored to get up an agitation on the subject,

by printing and selling about six thousand books relative to the subject;

and then, trusting to this enlightened public sentiment to back up the

movement, I petitioned Massachusetts Legislature to make the needed change

in the laws. Hon. S. E. Sewall, of Boston, drafted the Petition, and I

circulated it, and obtained between one and two hundred names of men of

the first standing and influence in Boston, such as the Aldermen, the

Common Council, the High Sheriff, and several other City Officers; and

besides, Judges, Lawyers, Editors, Bank Directors, Physicians, &c. Mr.

Sewall presented this petition to the Legislature, and they referred it to

a committee, and this committee had seven special meetings on the subject.

I was invited to meet with them each time, and did so, as were also Mrs.

Phelps and Mrs. Denny, two ladies of Boston who had suffered a term of

false imprisonment in a private institution at Sommersville, without any

previous trial. Hon. S. E. Sewall and Mr. Wendell Phillips both made a

plea in its behalf before this committee, and the gallantry and manliness

of this committee allowed me a hearing of several hour's time in all,

besides allowing me to present the two following Bills, which they

afterwards requested a copy of in writing. The three Superintendents, Dr.

Walker, Dr. Jarvis, and Dr. Tyler, represented the opposition. And my

reply to Dr. Walker constituted the preamble to my bills.

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